Organizing Chaos: Shelby Cornett’s Secrets to a Tidy Home

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Welcome to the around the House show, your trusted source for everything about your home.

Thanks for joining me today.

You're great to see you.

And Shelby, nice to meet you as well.

Yeah, it's so great to meet you guys.

I'm happy to be here.

So tell us a little bit before we get.

Let's build a story behind you here.

Tell us a little about.

About the Neat Freak.

I like that name.

Yeah.

Thank you.

I am the original Neat freak.

That's definitely the name.

Was intentional.

I am a neat freak.

I always have been.

I grew up that my idea of fun when I was a kid was redoing my room and cleaning.

Neat Freak.

It's truly in the name.

I always make the joke.

Mom, weren't you concerned?

Should I have gone to therapy?

Is that normal for a kid?

I don't know.

But it's funny, looking back now, it makes complete sense.

So I went.

I was never the kid that knew what she wanted to do.

I wasn't like, I want to be a firefighter when I grow up.

I just had no idea.

And so when I was going to college and choosing a major, I was like, maybe interior design.

I like homes.

I like house stuff.

Maybe real estate.

Maybe I'm just going to work in marketing and business.

And so I was always advised to go kind of towards the business route.

And so I did that.

And even through up until my last year in college, I was like, hey, guys, still don't know what to do.

Everyone told me I'd find my way, but at the time, I was kind of just organizing along the way and making my book and bar money some extra cash.

In college, I was like, this is fun.

Get to organize people's stuff, and they're paying me some money for it.

And so when I graduated, I kind of decided it was during the pandemic.

I was like, what am I doing with my life right now?

I'm not gonna go sit in an office and be stuck in a marketing firm to just get laid off or sent home in a couple months.

So I was like, I'm just gonna.

Give it a year.

We're gonna give it a year.

Make a business plan, do everything I learned in college and paid a lot of money for, and let's just see where it goes.

And after a year, I had.

It was just.

I immediately felt like I was like, in on the right path.

And about a year and some change, I ended up partnering with the Container Store here in Sacramento and became their in home organizer for that store.

And it just.

Everything just kind of was falling into place as neatly as it could, and so I just ran with it.

And so I started my team.

It was just me for about a year and a half or so.

And then I was like, shoot, this is a lot of work.

I can't do this by myself.

And hired a assistant organizer who was my best friend, still best friend, drug her her along on jobs, and we had a lot of fun.

And then I was like, okay, this is serious.

I can't just have my best friend at work.

I gotta hire a team.

And so just one step at a time evolved to what it is now.

So now our home base is Sacramento, California, but we.

I grew up in the Central Valley where Wendy's located, so we also have a team there.

Naturally, it just kind of evolved.

Lots of referrals and whatnot, just from family and friends.

And then it turned into a great team down there.

So, yeah, the two teams, Sacramento, Central Valley.

And so we service a big chunk of Northern California.

That's cool.

That's cool.

That is, for me, one of my hardest.

That's probably the biggest thing I struggle with.

We were talking before the show is my adhd.

It's organized in my head of where things are, but somebody can walk into my office and go, that's a hot mess.

But if you went, where's that paper?

I know exactly where it is.

It's just not socially acceptable.

Yeah, yeah, that's fair.

That is fair.

I think there are a lot of things that we have a lot of clients who also have adhd, adhd, even family.

I have one family that we do some home management for where the whole family has severe adhd.

They're all on medication, and they're very open about that.

And they.

It's not about bending the rules.

It's not about you teaching yourself to become this organized person.

It's about finding solutions that work for how your brain works.

So it's a lot of drop baskets and throwing things in bins and having things just kind of in your.

Your world, what makes sense.

But still having things zoned.

But it's going to be so different in your home than it is.

And someone who doesn't have ADHD and thinks completely differently.

But that's just like in design, you're creating a custom space for that family and that person.

It's the same way in organizing, you have to cater it to that family or the person or whomever.

Yeah.

I work with organizers myself.

Right.

It doesn't work if it doesn't make sense in my head.

Otherwise, it's just, okay, we did that and then I go, three.

One more thing we feel guilty about.

Like, yeah, yeah.

I didn't put it in the basket.

Totally slapping your hand.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

I always say we're not.

We don't just put things in bends and label them.

It truly is creating a system hugely important.

Yeah.

I mean, sorry, Eric.

I only say it because.

Because I'm horribly unstructured.

Right.

I'm chaos Master because the ideas pour out faster than I can keep up them.

And so the desktop on my Mac looks like the solar system.

And my downloads file has this many screenshots.

I mean, it's ridiculous.

Documents everywhere.

Absolute chaos.

I love it.

And in trying to dial that in and be more effective and be more hygienic about it, now that we have robots that will just build this stuff for me, I'm like, I need my little command center that has this button here and this thing here and that thing here.

And it makes sense here.

And it.

The difference is incredible.

I'm like, whoa.

I'm like, almost organized.

What happened, Shelby?

It's exactly that.

It's.

And it's funny.

It took a robot to teach me that, like, we need to build this for you.

And I'm like, oh, well, that's instead of me trying to fit into, you know, Microsoft's Office center or whatever.

Yeah.

It's a great square peg, round hole.

Yeah.

It's the only way it works, just like you said.

Yeah.

So, Wendy, how did you get working with Shelby on this?

I gotta hear this story.

So did you have a client that you're like, oh, my gosh, we gotta fix this.

How do we fix this?

I need help.

Used to think that I could design someone tidy.

So I walked into a house and immediately just feel like I had to get out.

Like, I had a panic because they.

Their everyday life was not calm or clean or pretty or any of the things that make me feel good.

And so then I would design rooms that I thought would corral their papers or do this or do that or whatever.

And I Failed terribly over and over again.

And there was a gal who was working with me at the time, and she goes, wendy, they're a messy.

You can't help them, okay?

Which is not really fair because I think, like you guys just said, you think of.

You think about things differently.

You have different processes.

It works out differently in your mind.

So I finally admitted defeat that I could not design someone tiny.

And I had seen Shelby's things come through on my Instagram.

And she looks really nice and kind, but also not a pushover, not somebody that one of my clients could convince to do something that she didn't think was right, that she could hold her ground.

And so I called her, I think, or I messaged her.

I remember asking you.

I respect Shelby very much because she can go into a space and is unbothered.

It does not affect her.

I am.

I go into a space, and I am affected by spaces, by people, by tone, by.

I'm a very highly sensitive person that tries very hard not to let anyone know that because I feel like could go one way or the other.

But I follow Shelby in, and I'm okay because she has that part handled.

And so I know that if I can get her in now, I get her in on the beginning of projects.

Shelby, can you help me with this client's master closet?

Shelby, this client is a gourmet chef, but does not have any organization, and it bothers them and it bothers me.

Can you please work with me and with the cabinet guy to make sure this is perfect?

Shelby, can you help me with this playroom?

I've actually had clients say, oh, my.

Gosh, Wendy, I so want you to do my kids room.

Be so much fun.

I'm like, I don't do that.

You need to call Shelby.

That's not for me.

I am not serving the client well if I go in and do their kids bedroom.

But Shelby will.

I mean, I can help find some cute little things and pick out fabrics and colors, but sounds like it the right way.

So it's great because she's now an integral part of our work around the house.

We'll be right back with Shelby Cornette from Neat Freak as we continue to get organized.

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Now let's return to the conversation with Shelby Cornette from Neat Freak as we continue to get organized.

But Shelby will, I mean, I can help find some cute little things and pick out fabrics and colors, but sounds like it the right way.

So it's great because she's now an integral part of our work.

And I would say she's probably worked now on over 15 different clients projects in the last three or four years.

Nice.

We love a Wendy project like that,.

Where I've gone in.

I'm not affected by them at all, Wendy.

But it's one of those things that I've walked in and I'm like, we need to deal with this organizational problem because we can't start a project in here.

There is no way that if we design out a kitchen and do a kitchen or kitchen or bathroom or whatever in this space, it's going to take them years just to get it cleaned out so we can start.

How do we do this?

And it was, I ran into more than one house that should have been on that Hoarders TV show where, holy smokes, how do you get in the door?

And I was talking about one that, that I did.

Oh, this was probably 10, probably least 10 to 12 years ago.

And it was up in Seattle, nice lady, she was just retiring and wanted me to come in and take a look.

And she, I, you know, knock on the door.

Nice.

Probably at the time, it was probably a million dollar house north of Seattle.

Walked in, she opens the door and I'm like, holy smokes.

And this was a weird one.

Everything was, I mean, I'm six foot tall.

It was, I couldn't see across the room very easily.

I was up on my tippy toes in the entryway just to see.

And there was two paths.

There was kind of this single track path that went to the kitchen in this single track path that went to the bedrooms and bathrooms.

And it was 10 inches wide, 12 inches wide top.

So it was just kind of trying to go through there.

But the strangest point to me was though, is that she had these perfectly laid out curio cabinets on the wall that were lit that had probably 3,000 of the same Siamese cat figurines that were all perfectly organized in the glass.

And then the dining room looked like a zoo display because she had vaulted ceilings in it.

There was 12ft of glass in the ultimate cat play structure that was perfectly organized.

And I walked In I went, okay, I'm not mentally ready for this.

This is wild.

From.

From the door opening, I was gonna ask how many cats were there?

Yeah.

And the answer was, probably close to.

12, But they were living a better life than she was.

And.

And the ironic part was she's.

It seemed like a germ freak because she turns around and goes, do you mind taking your shoes off before you came in?

And I went, no.

OSHA regulations.

I'm at work.

I have to wear my boots in here.

I can't take them off.

I'm sorry.

And she goes, oh, okay.

I have some booties in the car.

And I put booties on to keep my boots from catching what I was at in there.

So.

Oh, man.

Organizers come in, and they're like, you need abc.

It's math, right?

It is this math trick.

And she already nailed it on the first sentence that came out about the human psychology piece of that and creating systems that work for that specific person.

And I'm watching me describe the cat lady, and I'm watching her just go, huh?

Yep.

Of course, she had, you know, a million Siamese figurines.

Of course.

What Makes sense.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But she's the only one, though, out of all the my 33 or 34 years of doing design work on that, that.

On those kind of projects, which would filter in every few years, that she was the only one that I came back after she made room for the.

We did kitchen.

We did new countertops in her bathroom.

And I said, well, you're gonna have to work on that kitchen.

She goes, oh, I retire in a couple months.

By next year, I'll have it ready.

And she went in a year from having things at 6 foot 6 and a half feet tall to maybe 12, 15, 18 inches and had her countertops cleaned off so we could do countertops.

And I was like, wow.

Without help.

She actually got it dialed in, which I think was impressive, because most people at that spot really need a family of people around them to get that pulled off.

Organization, mental health care, dealing with stuff that whatever trauma in their life has got them into that situation.

Shelby.

It's gotta be tough dealing with that many layers with some clients.

In that case, if I would have walked into that home, I wouldn't have turned her down as a client, because I'm like, ew, this is gross.

There's too much here.

I would have had a very open and honest conversation with her of, how ready are you for this?

Because I can tell you if you're living like that, you have some sort of blockage that you need to talk to someone about until you actually get to the point where we're like, actually gonna declutter and work your way through this.

Because I can almost guarantee you she did not get rid of that stuff.

It's probably.

And maybe she did, but if I had to guess, it's in a storage unit, it's in a garage, it's a shed, it's under the beds and closets and anything in your home when you're doing home improvements, hiring interior designer, hiring a professional organizer, it's an investment.

And it's not just about making the buck for me.

I care about our clients and the project and the end result.

It's my reputation.

It's our teen's reputation.

So I would have had that conversation and just told her, I don't think you're ready for this, and I'm not going to let you waste your money having us come and shuffle stuff around for you.

You have to be in such a good mental place to be ready to get rid of stuff, regardless if you have a hoarding disease or not.

You just have to be mentally ready.

Yeah, I doubt she was a good point.

And.

And that's why she's part of the show.

Wendy.

She's one of us.

She's, like, not there to get a check.

I'm actually there to help people.

Oh.

Listen.

I try so hard in to the headspace of my clients so that I can deliver a home that they really love.

But that also means I have to be a safe person for them.

I have to be a person they can say anything to.

And so I can't be the person who says, you must do this, this, and this.

We're going to throw this away or we're going to give this away or we're going to.

And Shelby doesn't say you have to, but, like, she does have to be tough.

You know, I mean, there's.

It's tough love.

So she can play that role for me and do that for me so that I can maintain the relationship that I have with my clients where they do feel safe and can tell me anything.

Even sometimes their opinions about how things are going with Shelby, they're not responding to Shelby.

They're.

They have a resistance to the change.

Yeah, that's the thing, too.

That's the key right there.

Yeah.

And it's.

And I was so thankful that Shelby understands that and she's willing to take on that role in my professional life and the lives of my clients, because I really do need her in many instances to help people break through whatever's going on.

And once they experience the relief of just doing one spot with Shelby, because that is the thing, you come home, it's beautiful, it makes sense, and you're like, whoa, bad as something.

Once you get that feeling, then you want more.

It's like an addiction.

But you have to get them to the point where they'll allow that.

And she's designer contractor.

Same thing.

If you don't understand the human twist to all of these positions, you're missing the boat.

There's plenty of jokes out there, but you're not doing yourself or anybody else any favors unless you understand that.

And I think Shelby nailed it.

My reward was not the check.

It was watching somebody cry in their new kitchen.

Around the House.

We'll be right back with Shelby Cornette from Neat Freak as we continue to get organized.

Welcome back to the around the House show.

To find out more about us, head to aroundthehouse online.com and make sure you subscribe to our podcast.

Now let's return to the conversation with Shelby Cornette from Neat Freak as we continue to get organized.

Well, Shelby, I've noticed with that TV show I think everybody's seen out there, that hoarder show, it is just, to me, semi cruel to take people that are probably needing a lot of therapy to work through the issues, and they're just fairly brutally going, we got two days to do this.

And to me, I kind of watch that show and go, I understand what you're trying to do.

They've let it get to that point.

But you're making interesting television for some people.

But at the same point, it kind of makes my heart cry a little bit for these people because they're getting shoved into a situation that maybe was going to happen anyway, but the TV cameras are there to grab it.

And it's semi unfortunate.

I think it also shows the hopelessness of that situation as well as if people would have gotten involved earlier, whether it's family members or community members or anything else like that, that these people could have gotten help earlier and not gotten into that situation.

Yeah, it is really sad.

I don't love that show.

A lot of people refer to it, and I think it's just like TV in general.

It's produced, and so it's for the storyline, and that's why it's so.

I think the.

I haven't seen that show in years.

I haven't watched TLC anything in, like a million years, but they.

I learned channel yeah, yeah.

No crazy.

But I think I remember it being like, the city is going to come and evict you from your home.

We got to clean it.

You're going to get kicked out, whatever.

And so they would strip them from the home, pull everything out, have them then look at their stuff.

Like that was going to change their mind about the items and then set their home back up with a few of their things to make it feel like it was home.

But the huge.

And I think that they would bring on a therapist for that.

I think that there's so much more to it than just bringing a therapist to say, it's okay, don't worry, it's just stuff.

No.

There is something chemically wrong in their brains that they need to probably be on some sort of.

And I'm not a doctor, obviously, but on some sort of medication and have intense therapy.

This is not something that just happened overnight.

This is ingrained in them.

So, yeah.

Not a huge fan of that show.

That's what I was saying earlier.

I would never just be like, I can help you, because I can't.

I'm not.

I'm not equipped for that.

I don't know what you need.

All I know is that you need help and when you're ready.

And a lot of people like that probably would never be ready.

So that's when.

As family members, and it's not always the case for everyone, but need to step in and reach out to professionals and how you can actually help that family member not just get mad at them because they won't get rid of their trash or whatever that's in their house.

Yeah.

If you can't understand it and find that compassion.

There's some compassion.

You don't have a. I mean.

Well, I don't know.

And then you see it.

I'm getting all soft again.

But, I mean, these people are crying over a candy wrapper.

Come on, dude.

Yeah, you're gonna explain that away with.

Well, just don't do that.

You're like, well, I've never thought of that.

That's like telling me to check my spam folder.

You're like, really.

Didn't think of that one.

Yeah, well, it's funny, too.

And we saw that generationally, my age, Johnny's age, even Wendy's, that the grandparents that went through the Great Depression, they tended to hold on to things a little more because, wow, I might need that and what if I don't have the money to buy it?

And I think that was a lot different than what we see now, with.

With those situations, I was just in the news in Eastern Washington, where I grew up.

There was a house there that was so overwhelmed, you couldn't see the house from the street.

And there were appliances blocking the sidewalk.

Interesting.

Unfortunately, like, in the last couple weeks, the house caught on fire and the fire department couldn't even.

Nobody died, which was awesome.

But they couldn't get in there to put it out.

They had to put.

Treat it like a commercial fire with ladder trucks and just stay back.

And they had to finally get in there with an excavator to clear a path just to get into the building.

Wow.

And I felt bad for the neighborhood.

I used to live three blocks down that same street, so I knew the exact house.

And unfortunately, over two years, that thing there was not one square inch of property that could be seen from the sky.

And we need to have, I think, way better care for people with that.

Obviously, that's where we need to get the mental health professionals in.

And so many people get worried about that, too.

I'll talk to people that are a little bit messy, and they go, oh my gosh, I've got this.

And it's like, you just need some organization help.

You're not to that point yet, so work on it.

There's a big.

There's a wide scale between hoarder and minimalist, and there's a lot of bumps in between.

Exactly.

So, Shelby, how do you start out with clients where.

What's your start when somebody calls up and goes, help, I need organizational help.

Yeah.

So typically it starts with the phone call.

Just like that.

And then we do an in home consultation.

So we come into the home, we see it in real life, do a walkthrough, we talk about pain points in the space.

I can't even step foot into my closet because there's so much going on here.

I hate that when I'm cooking, I can't.

There's no flow.

I don't know where anything goes.

Things are getting put away wherever.

So we identify those points.

We know what actually needs to be tackled or tackled first.

And I love in home consultations because I get to know the client too, and what's important to them and like how they're living in this space.

After we get that information, I write them a proposal, gives them a little game plan, how much it's going to cost for each space or whole home or move or whatever it might be.

And then once that gets approved by the client, then we go into the planning phase of it.

So we.

I Take measurements during the consultation, typically.

So there's closet designing that might be happening.

There's product sourcing and planning, scheduling those declutter sessions.

Because you should never organize before you declutter.

Why would you spend money on storing things that you don't need?

Or.

That's exactly the time you do it, though, right?

Oh, I better organize first.

I got.

Yeah, that's literally.

It's in one of our emails that goes out after you pay your deposit or something.

It's.

Please don't clean up for us.

It's okay, you're good.

And they still clean up every time.

Yes.

100.

Yeah.

I need to identify the mess.

I need to know that when you walk into your house, you have this mountain of paperwork because, like, why.

Why is that happening?

Is it because there's nowhere to store it?

Is it.

Because that's just the spot where it's gonna.

Of.

Let's throw a basket there and contain it.

We're really working through the problems that are actually there and not just here.

Here's some pretty vents for the closet or wherever.

And you're organized now.

It doesn't work like that.

Be a whole lot easier if it did.

Right?

Right.

Yeah.

Once we get the planning of it all done, then we have an install.

If it's somewhere where we're doing the closet, a new closet, new pantry, we get that done first, obviously, and then we come in.

So declutter any installation of systems, and then we bring in the product and do all the final details like labeling and all that good stuff.

Nice.

So, Shelby, what is the most.

In your experience, what's the most popular room?

Is it the closet?

Is it the kitchen?

Is it the bedroom?

What's the.

What's the room that is usually the.

The gateway drug for people getting somebody in to get organized.

The gateway drug.

I love that.

I would say a lot of.

We get a lot of calls for kitchens, garages, and closets.

I would say those are like our top three.

And then maybe coming in fourth, playroom, kid area, because that's always overwhelming with a lot of toys and kids just have so much stuff.

But I would definitely say.

I think kitchen and garage would be, like, top, because those are two spaces that you're in often your closet, too.

And you're constantly being reminded of what's not working in that space because you're typically spending every day, at least a little part of your day in each of those spaces.

Nice.

I just should have moved here.

Go ahead, Johnny.

I have a challenge for you.

You talk about not being able to get into your closet.

Well.

Or get around in your kitchen.

Well, I can't get in my bathroom very well.

What do I.

How do I organize a very large German shepherd and golden lab basket?

Just put them in there in your basket.

Good boy.

Here's a treat.

You stay.

Yeah, it's hilarious.

There we go.

They weigh more than me.

Yeah.

Take it easy.

So a really neat thing that's helped me and my clients a lot that Shelby and her team has.

Have developed is their moving system.

Yeah.

So moving is one of the top, most seven stressful things that a person can do.

And something like that, too.

It's even more difficult.

I've had, you know, Shelby has moved several of my clients, so either move them out so that we can do a full renovation or move them from their current home to the new home that we've just completed for them.

And she'll go in and study their systems in their current home and then find new systems that will work in the new home.

Box every, you know, declutter everything.

Box everything.

Put everything in, install all the.

And when she says systems, it means a closet system, the ELFA system for Container Store.

Or she'll work with, for example, David, our cabinet guy, and plan a full custom closet so that when they move in, everything has a place.

And it's all beautiful and organized, dreamy.

And it's great because it's just so nice because the client skips all the exhausting.

I mean, it's not that they're not tired, but they're not tired the way they'd be if they did it all alone by themselves or didn't have professional advice or didn't have any kind of guidance and didn't have a plan.

And Shelby works with the moving companies as well and coordinates the whole thing.

So it saves us all a lot of frustration and energy.

And it's just been great to have that because it's made a huge difference in the way my clients understand.

Well, honestly, in the way they experience their house for the first time.

Yeah.

Because they don't come in to piles of boxes and everything undone.

They come into a perfectly organized, beautiful home, which only further accentuates how pretty it is and all the work that I've gotten to do with my team.

So people feel amazing, and that's really what you want.

I mean, you don't.

Yeah.

You want people to sit down on.

The floor and cry because they're overwhelmed.

You want them to cry because they're.

Like, this is the most amazing Beautiful place.

Nice.

So it's great you can make that shift for clients and it's been very helpful.

Johnny, you've moved 84 times, isn't it?

Oh, my gosh.

87.

87.

Yeah.

I was just gonna ask.

So hefty bags and masking tape.

Not.

Not quite as cool.

And then just, you know, this was my only rule.

The last thing to leave the house was the stereo.

And the first thing in the new house was the stereo.

Right?

Yeah.

And then you throw everything around it and over the process of a few months.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like.

Yeah, it's crazy.

Like our process.

And then I. Yeah.

I actually had my most.

I had my best move ever this last fall because I decided early on that I was going to be organized with it.

So I bought a label maker and every.

I did five boxes.

I bought totes.

So I bought Those Home Depot $9 big totes with the snap on lid and everything got labeled.

I put labels on three sides so I knew where it was and it worked.

I'm gonna end up with a lot of totes empty for the.

I can sell them and get half my money back out of them and it'll be okay.

But they're magic.

I used them a bunch as a contractor, but not to move.

Yeah.

I could stack them up in my storage unit 12 high and they could stay there.

Where moving boxes these days, it's so thin that after you get about five or six, everything's falling over.

So to me, I'm like, these are locked in and this is awesome.

Yeah.

There's a great business concept that's kind of floating around a lot in Texas.

I see like New York, like a lot of bigger cities.

I'm noticing them.

It's.

They're.

Instead of buying boxes, you can rent crates.

So they're like interlocking crates too.

So you don't need tape, you don't need whatever.

You just rent the crates.

They bring them on a truck, they drop them off, your movers use them and then they pick them up.

It's the most genius thing because it's also great for the environment.

Like.

Yep.

I am not the most cautious person.

I should be better about the environment and waste and all the things.

But because of my job, I see how much we do waste and get rid of and especially during moves.

Oh, my goodness.

Like so much cardboard and just paper and bubble wrap and when you're doing one a week, it's just like a lot.

So, yeah, Hefty bags.

Plastic.

Yeah.

There.

It's a great thing.

But yeah, look at you go labeling all three sides too.

I mean, yeah, you're organized.

For me, that's.

And I was really diligent about, okay, if it's not on the label, it's not going on the box.

And so I tried to keep things organized that way and it made it so much easier because a lot of my stuff I didn't have the space in the new house for.

So I still have.

I mean I had 26ft of closet, now I'm in down to five.

Cause she's got her stuff too.

But I know where everything's in.

It's like they're folded up.

It's in totes in my storage unit.

And I can go in and go, hey, where's that jacket I need that I went and needed from last year that I'm not.

I need once.

Okay, let me go grab that.

And I can find it in 60 seconds or less.

Instead of cutting open 42 boxes going, where's it at?

Yeah, ease of access.

It's important.

So that made a lot of sense.

But yeah, it's interesting too.

You talk about kitchens and kitchens.

If you've got a brand new kitchen, it's so easier to organize it because you can really get a lot of accessories to go in there.

From when I, as a certified kitchen designer myself, I'm the guy that goes in and says, okay, usually on a kitchen I try to do almost all drawers except for maybe a tall storage for cutting boards, sheet goods, and then maybe for the weird mixers and stuff that won't go on a drawer.

I'll have some tall doors.

But to me, I always went with drawers.

Is that a pretty good way to go from an organizing point of view?

Yeah, we love drawers.

Things get so lost in cabinets or one of my least favorite cabinet options is when you open the cabinet and there's a half shelf and a deep shelf.

What is that doing for anyone?

I don't understand.

How much money did we save on half a shelf?

I don't know, but that's popular know, don't I?

I think drawers are great, but also having a little bit of a combo, it is nice to have a few deep cabinets for large, I don't know, large mixing bowls or things that just don't work great.

Yeah, the large big stuff that's not going to get lost in a deep cabinet.

Yeah, but drawers are just easier to access.

You can you look down, you see everything you have.

It's the best.

So Shelton, we're talking the kitchens and the other Thing is, I got an answer for you on that half depth shelf because I have worked with a bunch of different cabinet companies where I would fly in, they would fly me in and I'd be there for the week.

We'd be picking out the new stain colors, the new cabinets, and that was my goal in some of these meetings.

How do we get rid of this stupid shelf?

And they would always come back and say, well, that's so you could put something taller in the front.

And I'm like, no, no, no, no.

And you can't access the back.

Move the shelf, put something taller.

To be honest, they would never say this.

And these are big national companies.

I honestly think they did that so they could get the add on sale for the rollout drawers.

I think that's what it was.

They wanted you to buy the three drawer cabinet because they wanted you to look up and go, that's horrible.

I need to spend more.

And I think it was their way of getting people to spend the extra $400 for pull out trays or a drawer cabinet there.

And they were kind of penalizing the standard cabinet.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Definitely.

It's.

What's hard for me to understand is that a lot of people don't have that visual or that they can't conceptualize that until it's done.

And then it's like we're moving backwards and it's okay, great.

We have this beautiful new kitchen now.

It's not functioning the best as it could be.

And I just spent especially in these multimillion dollar homes.

It's like someone should be talking to the client about that beforehand.

And that's why it's so great to have organizers and interior designers and contractors who are going to support you and like actually have your back and give you the hard advice of no, you need to spend this extra money right now so that this house serves you for the next 20, 30 years.

That's why you're spending all this money now, not to just get into a pretty house.

Yes.

And there's two.

I think in kitchens there is a point where the things that the cabinet craftsperson is going to sell you for the guts of your drawers and doors and everything and the things that a professional organizer would bring in, there can be a blend of those two things.

But I would say it's, it's, it's important that you consult with the professional organizer to figure out that kitchen because standard solutions in kitchen cabinets are not your custom solution like we've been talking about through this episode.

And they aren't going to serve you the best.

And they're really expensive.

Someone else makes them, not your cabinet guy.

And they mark it up and then they sell it to you.

You or to your contractor.

And they mark it up again.

And everyone gets their piece.

Someone's business model.

But if it's not going to work.

Right.

It doesn't make any sense.

So.

Right.

You know, the trash pull out.

Yeah, that makes great sense.

Of course, we totally endorse this idea, but some of those crazy gizmo things is a huge problem.

Sponges.

Yeah, I think that that's so true, Wendy.

And I think that's why I love that you always bring us on at the beginning of the job.

Because you know things, obviously.

But it's so helpful to see.

No, we don't need that.

You don't have X, Y and Z.

So why would we need that in the kitchen?

That is just kind of a standard, fun add on whatever.

But you really need this.

And so being able to eliminate those problems at the beginning is saving you time, resources and energy.

Money.

Maybe even.

Or maybe not.

But definitely time and resources and energy down the road.

Or frustration.

And even just investing in us, the professional organizers now to come in and make these systems for you and make your kitchen feel and look great.

But it's still.

I mean, we're not carpenters.

We can't just build some drawers on site.

We're working with what we got.

So I think 100%, having a professional organizer just look over your plans.

Just a quick little meeting.

Just give it a little, little Look.

I think 100%, your next business move is starting a cabinet line that you design, you help design.

I love it.

Love your brain, the face of it.

Perfect.

That.

No, seriously, why you're not wrong.

That's a real.

That's a nice little brand issue.

Like, I started as an organizer and then I went, these cabinets don't ever have the things I want.

That would help a lot of people.

Right?

It's pretty.

Two plus two.

And yeah, you can just brand it.

Really cool.

And everybody go, oh, it's the hip new line of cabinets.

Let's do it.

Sign me up, schedule.

I'll draw it up.

There we go.

Perfect.

Thank you.

But, you know, it's interesting, though.

There's so many of those accessories that the.

And I'm not going to name names out there because it doesn't matter, but that make these certain accessories.

And I'm like, every single time I would say, you don't want this.

And here's why.

And they would go.

And the tilt out sponge thing was one of them.

Because anybody that ever installs a undermount sink, it's going to get in the way.

It's never going to fit.

And then they spend 75 bucks on the piece or 100 bucks on the piece that's installed in the cabinets.

Now you're going to pay the contractor to go, oh, yeah, I gotta uninstall that.

Fasten the drawer front somehow.

That was gonna do this.

And now, now the.

No, that didn't work.

Cost you 250 bucks.

And it also makes your sponge smell bad.

Disgusting.

So gross.

If you're just take.

You just take the little pin nailer.

And slip it in.

Oxycontin.

Don't get that icky.

That ridiculous family member.

Your.

Your son.

My son, who I love very much, who doesn't like to touch the gross part.

So he'll go like this with a sponge and just throw it on.

Yuck.

You don't want that.

No, no, no, no.

You notice I've been quiet.

You deserve better than that.

I'm not allowed in the kitchen.

I just stay out.

There's a line right here of tile.

It's not.

Johnny, do not cross that line.

I can do coffee.

That's it.

That's as far as my coffee's important.

My privileges stop there.

And even with that, she adjusts the handle a little bit.

Every time I put it out, I'm.

Like, wasn't good enough.

It's over.

The flame seems okay.

Little.

Just a little adjust.

We are running out of time.

How do people find you out there if they're in the Northern California going, oh my gosh, she's in my area.

I need help.

Yes, you can find us at the neat freak co.com or on Instagram.

The Neat Freak Co by Shelby.

Post lots of stuff on Instagram.

Try to get all of our good projects on there.

And our website has all of our contact information.

Awesome.

And Wendy, of course, if someone wants to bring you on so you guys can double team designing out this space and making it function, how do they find you?

Wendyglasterinteriors.com G L A I S T E R and the same tagline on Instagram.

So thank you guys so much process because it is really fun and it is.

She does make a huge difference.

It's taken a lot of pressure off.

So other designers too.

I highly recommend that you make a good friend of an organizer that you can partner with because it changes things for your clients.

Get yourself an Organizer.

I just want to circle back back and say that again.

When we get cool people on here that just get it.

That right.

Are doing humane things for the right.

Right.

That's the tagline.

Doing good things with good people for the right reasons.

And that human approach and that human touch and understanding is just so important.

You're dealing with people's homes.

It's that it's their home.

That's all I need to say.

But so, yeah, it's refreshing and definitely thanks for coming on, Shelby.

Wendy, I love you're always a hoot, but I need to talk to Mark and make sure he's not getting wedge.

So we want to protect Mark contingent.

Oh, yeah.

We're gonna have an intervention.

We're gonna have an intervention.

Tomorrow.

Don't you worry.

I'll literally be there tomorrow.

There we go.

Yeah.

You guys, thank you so much.

This is so fun.

You guys were great to chat with and yeah, this is an awesome thing you got going here.

Ah, thanks, Shelby.

Thanks, Wendy.

John, it's always fun with you.

It was great to have some of your insights on this.

This is good.

It was nice to bring in another ADHD buddy in this to.

We made it through, didn't they didn't stop.

We did.

We survived.

We survived.

Yay, T. And for John Dudley, you've been listening to around the House.

You don't want to be a Debbie.

Downer Just turn around upside down don't be a stick in the mud Grab your buddy grab your butt Take this good time and turn it up no.

One ever talks about the night Stay with the bed counting them she catching teeth getting beauty ribs Acting your age don't make a good story Knock one.

Back, no buzz, no worry no one.