Moisture Matters: The Science of Tile Prep with Ardex

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Welcome to the around the House show, your trusted source for everything about your home.

Thanks for joining us today.

I'm Eric G. This summer, we have been celebrating America with our America250 campaign, trying to find those legendary companies that are manufacturing right here in the United States.

And today we've got one of my favorites, Ardex Americas.

And of course, my brother from another mother, William White.

Welcome to around the House Brother.

Hey, Eric, how you doing today?

Great to see you, my friend.

And you and I go way back.

We do, we do.

We won't even go far back.

Let's put it this way.

We were in Boy Scouts together back in the day.

So this is kind of old home week for me.

Having a great chat with you.

And I gotta give you credit, William.

You are my go to source for tile.

And I thought I knew everything until I started working on my house with you.

Really showed how little I did know about it.

Just sharing my knowledge, my friend.

Ah.

And it's deep and I love it, man.

And thanks for coming on today.

And I love what Ardex is doing out there.

Made in America is such a big thing out there.

And not only is it great for the American worker and people out there, it really gives you guys the best control of the product because it's already here in the States, which sometimes can be half the battle.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

On the other piece that I add to that is also supportive.

Right.

Made here, but also supported here.

So got people out in the field to support the contractors who are doing those installations every day in the field, which is really kind of cool too.

It really is.

And I think that's the one thing with.

With tile and surfaces like this.

Of all the different products that you guys create out there is.

There's so many different situations out there where the package materials of what they give you of, okay, this is how you use it.

But there's those what abouts.

That's where the support is so important to me because every installation is a little different.

No two are exactly the same.

Right.

So especially as we talk about all over the United States, 50 states and in the union, and.

And they all have different conditions Right.

Different substrates, different installation contractors, different everything.

Different weather, different.

It's just crazy.

Installing outdoor tile in Pittsburgh is way different than South Beach, Florida.

This is true.

This is true.

Though you might use the same materials if you pick the right ones out there.

It's just how you do it and make sure that you cover it.

Right, Exactly.

Yeah.

So I wanted to talk about.

You guys are big on the systems, and that's what I love, because as an installer for the professional and even the homeowner out there, but you guys aren't really found on the home improvement shelves.

But you're with the experts out there, and that's what I like.

And you can dive into a system and it's going to carry you through the project, which I think is brilliant.

Exactly, exactly.

So we do look at system assemblies.

Right.

We're typically starting with substrate prep and building all the way out to the finish.

And quite often a lot of our products aren't really even seen at the.

At the end of it.

So it's what's underneath that really counts, though.

Right.

So starting with substrate prep, making sure that the substrate is.

Is proper, and then building up from there with the proper adhesives, the proper waterproofing, whatever is necessary.

Again, no two jobs are exactly the same, but to build that all the way out.

Right, absolutely.

And.

And that prep is so key.

It can make that job go so easy or you're going to fight it the entire way.

Yep, yep.

Especially as we start getting into more and more installations where moisture is a problem.

And I'm talking interior installations.

I know you mentioned exterior, but.

Yeah, even interior installations.

As we're getting into more materials that are moisture sensitive.

Vinyls and some of our hardwood installations and these things, and even tiles, as tiles are getting bigger and grout joints are getting smaller and smaller, moisture's becoming an issue that comes up through the slab or through the substrate and dealing with that.

So a lot of times that's actually where we start starting there.

Preventing moisture from coming up and then building up.

Yeah, it's.

It makes a lot of sense because you think about it, if you're putting down large format tiles on a.

On a concrete slab, for instance.

Yep.

That's a whole other world.

Because that is like one big sponge.

And then what are you doing to protect that?

Protect the installation?

Because you can make that go super smooth or it goes sideways.

Yeah, yeah.

So then.

And then you go.

You mentioned a large format tile.

Well, also, large format tiles need a flatter substrate.

When we used to have really small tiles, they could follow a substrate that wasn't necessarily perfect.

Now you get big tiles and they can't follow that substrate and you end up with these teeter totters or lippage or ledging there.

That makes it undesirable installation.

So you need to do proper prep.

Right.

And that's where some of our newer technologies come in.

We've got some crazy new technologies out there that are really fun.

I don't even think I've got to talk to you about that one, Eric.

No, let's hear it.

High flow, like, it's just.

It's one of our exciting things that I was about to be a part of when I moved here to Pittsburgh, working with our team to develop this product.

We launched it last year and it is the fastest growing product in the entire Arctic Global group.

Wow.

Yeah.

Pretty cool.

Well, it's so big because you think about it, especially with like we were talking about with large format, who says that those things are even flat and square?

Those things can have their own little curl to them, right?

They can, they can for sure.

Yeah.

And then when you're putting that on to maybe the not so perfect floor, you're really depending.

That whole installation is depending on what's between that slab and what's between that tile.

Exactly, exactly.

Yep.

The one thing I like too is just how easy the product is to work with.

Like you said, you guys have really worked that in.

And even doing my bathroom, when you and I were up there knocking that out, just putting in the heated floor and the whole tile system.

And that was complex because we had a steam shower, we had different materials, and heck, you even caught a major error from a major company that was an installation error as far as their directions.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, of course you never choose to do anything easy.

You've always got to have it complicated.

That's you.

But you look at putting in that heat and then we did pour an underlayment over top of it and that made the rest of the tile installation go really easy.

And that's where that proper prep comes in.

Yeah, yeah, it makes sense.

And you guys have been chasing down like the self leveling products for.

You guys have been the king of that for a number of years.

And it seems like you just keep getting it better and better and more innovation.

Yeah.

A lot of people don't realize this, but Ardex actually invented self leveling cement or underlings, as we call them now.

Ardex actually invented that.

And so we make a lot of them.

They all do something a little bit different.

But we are king in that technology realm of how to pour cement really thin, really strong, get it really flat.

See, that's the key right there.

And at the same time, it's got to cure within a reasonable amount of time as well.

So there's a lot of different facets to that animal, because if one goes wrong, that slows you down and you'd.

Be surprised at the chemistry that goes into it.

That's one of my most exciting parts about moving here to corporate and being here is.

Is going and talking with the R D guys and looking at all the little science that they put into it.

It's pretty cool.

Is this.

I could imagine.

And they're.

And the other thing I love what you guys do too, is your Artax Academy.

You're flying all over the place doing stuff, and you and I are always chatting on the road.

But your training is so big because these products are technical and you need to have the training for this stuff.

Well, training it.

And that training goes to support the contractors, right?

The guys that are using this product every day.

But even a lot of them have never been through official or proper training.

And that's what Ardex Academy is all about, is providing training to contractors, architects, designers, to really get them knowledgeable about what proper assemblies and what some of the newer technologies are.

Because just because we're up to date 10 years ago, things have changed massively in all of our industries.

The flooring industry, the tile industry, the moisture remediation industry, the surface like surfaces like the polished concrete toppings that we manufacture as well.

All of those has changed so much in the last 10 years that if you did training 10 years ago, it's probably time to come back and do training again.

The cool thing is we make it pretty easy.

We've got, what, six facilities across us.

We train at dedicated Ardex facilities.

We also do them out in the field as well.

So training is.

Is a big part of what we do at Ardex.

Definitely.

Well, it's funny, it seems with the.

With the TAL guys that I know out there that are the pros, they get into their groove and this is how I do it.

And it's got to be interesting because that's one of those trades that it's like, I've done it this way for 20 years, trying to get them to open up the knowledge base and say there's an easier way.

Or maybe you're not doing this right for the specifications, you're 90% there, but if you do the other 10%, that's got to be tough because that's one of those trades that, that people get in a groove and they don't want to come out of it.

Yeah, yeah.

And not to say that.

That they were wrong or that they've been doing it wrong, but maybe there are better ways, easier ways, faster ways to get better results.

And ultimately that's what it's about for the contractor is how do I get more work done in a single day and how do I make more money?

Because times are tough and times are tighter.

So that's what we want to help them with is, is how to actually make more money.

And see, that's key.

And, and not have those callbacks.

Right.

Not have the, oh, my gosh, that tile popped off the bathroom wall or I got a broken tile in the middle of the.

Of the entryway that who knows what happened here?

But those are the ones that can take a day or a day and a half.

And there's no profit in that.

When you go back out and fix.

Stuff, as soon as you go back to a job site to even deal with a complaint, there's.

There's.

Yeah, there's no money in that whatsoever.

And there's also the frustration factor is people have been using maybe some older technologies of products and going home at the end when you're having to fight with a product.

And Eric, you and I have both done this on our own personal remodels.

Right.

You use a product and you fight with it.

And fight with it.

Yeah.

You get it done and then you found out there's a better way.

That's what we're about, is trying to show you there's better way.

For sure.

Yeah.

And we're pushing products way harder than we used to.

Steam showers, for instance, and all these things that we're putting into homes that you'll see an old school tile installer, they put the green board drywall up in the shower and they tile right over the top of it.

And then somebody installs a steam unit in there.

Wonder why this went sideways.

But it's not going to hold up to today's use and.

And materials out there.

Exactly.

Yep.

So that part, I think is awesome.

But really, I think out in the industry, there is nobody that manages that technical expertise like you guys do.

It's all about the Instructions and I see other brands out there, I've been to so many other training seminars at flooring places and stuff like that to see it.

And some of these products are kind of homeowner friendly where they do okay, right.

They've got a lot of forgiveness to them, but you expect a little less out of them.

And I think that's where the strength of your products come out.

Because if you follow the directions and you do it right, you've got something that's going to exceed virtually any other product.

Exactly, exactly.

That's what we tell people.

And a lot of times if it's their first time using a product, will even say that is is literally just follow the instructions that are on the back of the bag, back of the product to the letter and it will do exactly what it's supposed to do.

Oh well, I've never had to do that before.

I'm telling you, if you, if you do it to the letter, what's on the back of the bag, it will 100% always do what it's supposed to do.

It's like baking the cake, right?

You're getting the box, you're going to follow it, it's going to turn out okay if you follow the direction.

Exactly, exactly.

And that's what the recipe is for, right?

Is, is to make it replicatable every single time.

So what are some of the latest products you've been using out there?

Now you and I haven't worked together side by side for over a year now and of course I don't get to see all the latest stuff.

But what's some of the new stuff you guys are using out there that's been hitting the marketplace to make things easier or better.

So, so we, we touched on how moisture can be an issue nowadays.

Right.

So starting with moisture, we've got some new single coat moisture barrier which is called BB100, which is a vapor barrier.

It's a single coat product.

Roll it on.

Sorry, it's a two coat but it's just roll on where a lot of times you, A lot of products in the past have been oxy based and we do have our MC Rapid that is a single coat product that is epoxy based.

But here we have something that doesn't require.

It's not a two part mix.

Plain Mad scientist on a job site, you can open it up, mix, just stir up the contents and roll it out.

So VB100 and then you couple that with something like our V13 because the VB100 also acts as A primer.

Right.

So moisture barrier and your primer.

That can go down to an eight high flow, 29 square feet at a quarter of an inch.

This stuff is crazy to work with.

And it looks like glass when it's poured out there.

You can go on concrete, you can go on plywood.

It's just, it's super versatile.

It's our new killer out there in the, in the industry.

That's great for doing the new trends out there, like the curbless showers and stuff like I did in mine.

It just flows right where you want it to.

And it was so much fun.

Especially if you're putting what down flexbone or something like that down there as well.

Exactly.

Yep.

Guys out there that don't know flexbone is, Is there, is that a decoupling membrane with the heated.

Is that kind of what that's called?

Yeah.

So there's two versions of Flexboat.

Right.

So we have our version that is just a decoupling or uncoupling mat.

It's an eighth inch thick.

That is going to prevent any cracks or movement from coming up into your tile work.

We also have a quarter inch version that you can put a wire into.

Like we did your house with a heated wire in there to create a heated floor.

And that is also an uncoupling as well with the heat element in it.

Yeah, that is so important, especially when you've got plywood that's flexing, you've got concrete subfloor that's cracking or moving crack.

Yeah.

How many times you walked into a commercial building and you're walking in and you see all these jig jagged cracks where the concrete crack below it and you can just see where it went underneath the tile and you go, well, they missed that.

Yep, yep.

One of our favorite stores right there in Portland, their showroom had cracks run right down through the middle of their walkway.

And I'm like, you could have prevented that.

Same thing when I was in Las Vegas at the, at the D North hall out there.

They've got the big entry there.

There's probably a 200 foot crack across their tile going across that convention.

And it's just racing across like it's a fault line.

And you can just see where that has just telescoped up through the floor.

And if you're a homeowner, that's just a nightmare because that's just going to stick out like a scratch on a, on a brand new car.

It does, it does.

We also, we know Three things about concrete gray gonna crack and nobody's gonna steal it, right?

Exactly.

It's just a matter of where's it gonna crack.

Sometimes we don't know.

That's what those uncoupling membranes or anti fracture membranes do for us.

Inexpensive and they keep those cracks from coming up through the tile work and through the finish.

That is awesome.

I wanted to kind of go back into the made in America stuff with you guys here.

Are you guys making that all at your headquarters there in Pennsylvania or is it around the country?

So we actually have five different manufacturing facilities across the US Spread out from literally from coast to coast.

Right, Nice.

So we've got one in California, we've got one in Georgia.

We've got our main headquarters here just outside of Pittsburgh.

And we do manufacture here as well.

So it is kind of cool.

We have also a manufacturing facility, Bourbon a Illinois, south side of Chicago.

So we do.

We've got manufacturing at five different locations across the US we employ across the US we employ about 400 people out here in the US and then globally, we're about 4,000 people.

Globally, yeah.

That's incredible.

You guys have such a great global footprint and it's funny to think that the US is just a small part of that.

Yeah.

And again, part of that is also our distribution network too.

That distribution network, again, is based on American businesses and we have some great partnerships that go back 30 plus years here in the US 40 years.

And yeah, we're celebrating America 250.

But Ardex wasn't here back then, and Ty was a little bit different back then and homes were different.

But we're here in the U.S. you know, we've got relationships going back 30, 40, 50 years here, which is pretty cool.

That is super cool.

And you guys too.

That's about relationships, right?

It seems like once that tile installer, that homeowner knows your stuff, you're not changing them.

Once they get in, they're like, hey, I'm not going anywhere.

This is the way to go.

Exactly.

Those relationships are.

And those distributor relationships and the contractor relationships, it really all comes together.

It's a trifecta there.

And then you add the architects and design and specifiers in there as well.

It just, it really is about creating that energy for everybody.

And we've talked a lot about what goes behind these surfaces.

When you're talking grouts and things like that, you guys really excel.

I love working with your grout.

That is just like peanut butter and it cleans up easy.

I'm not getting Covered in.

Because I like black grouts.

Come on.

I like the dark charcoal stuff and other brands.

It looks like I was playing in the.

Cleaning out the barbecue or something when I'm done.

Yeah.

Your stuff, for some reason, cleans up just like, just super easy.

And it's impressive.

Again, different technologies that Arctics is using than some of those other manufacturers.

And like at your house on your backsplash, we did black grout on that, didn't we?

Yeah, we did.

Yeah.

And that was actually DG1 grout, which is a single component.

Ready to use grout.

Another.

Cool.

My favorite grout.

I'm remodeling my house and it's what I put in my house.

But like you said, the cool thing there is rather than looking like you just got done cleaning out the barbecue and your hands are all stained black, the pigments actually on each individual grain of sand.

So you don't have to worry about staining.

You staining the counter, making this huge black mess if you're using black grout.

But all.

All grout colors will typically leave a residue.

And that DG1 doesn't.

Again, just crazy new technologies that we have available.

And I had that behind the 48 inch range.

So it was getting grease, it was getting beat up.

Because when I'm cooking, it's.

It's a mess.

It's spaghetti sauce, it's whatever.

And it was just a simple wipe.

There was no need to go in and.

And didn't have to go back and do a bunch of sealing on it.

Do all that maintenance stuff that.

That you have to do with the older style materials.

Yeah.

With the older grouts.

Yeah.

And I think that's the.

That's the key too, is the use of it afterwards.

It's all great.

When it's installed, people move in.

It's great.

But if you do a light colored grout, that can be the maintenance nightmare.

Whether it's on a floor, a backsplash, or a bathroom.

Yeah.

On the old school grout.

Yeah.

That used to be a difficult maintenance issue where you're having to scrub it and then reseal it and do all this.

Now with newer technologies, grout maintenance, it's not a thing.

No one wants to spend their Saturday or Sunday scrubbing grout lines.

I got better things to do with my time.

I love it.

Well, William, we're running out of time.

How do people find your products out there?

How do they get involved with this?

If they're an installer, how do they find out where the latest education is?

That kind of stuff.

The best thing to do is actually Visit our website, arctics Americas.com we're also on all the social medias, The Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, all of that we do post.

All of our trainings are posted online as well.

So if anyone hearing this is interested in training.

Absolutely.

Reach out to us.

We.

We offer specified or specialized training on our different product categories.

So we kind of break them down by segments, if you will, and do them on tile, do them on flooring, do them on moisture mitigation systems, do them on our polished or finished surfaces.

All kinds of different trainings out there.

And I love the products you guys have.

It's so wide ranging.

And guys out there, if you haven't messed with this stuff before, whether you're a homeowner contractor, take a look.

There are so many easy buttons wrapped up in your product line.

I can't believe it.

Every time I get done working with you, William, it's one of those things where I turn around and go, wow, okay.

I like that adhesive.

I'm using that for other stuff or whatever we're working on.

So that stuff makes it easy.

And there's a lot of answers there that can really make it a lifetime installation.

Just about.

You're going to get tired of that tile before the product fails.

And at that point, I think that's a win.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

William, thanks for coming on today, brother.

I always appreciate you.

I love the wisdom that you put into this stuff.

And thanks to Ardex Americas for bringing that stuff to the US Supplying those jobs and making it right here and just makes it easier for everybody.

And that's great jobs for America, as always.

Good to catch up with you, Eric.

We'll see you.

Thanks, brother.

I'm Eric G. You've been listening to around the House.

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