The Art of Collaboration: Finding the Right Designer for Your Home

Foreign.

Ready to turn your house into the home you've always dreamed of without the headaches or huge bills.

You're tuned to around the House, the nation's number one home improvement radio show and podcast with expert advice that's helped millions tackle everything from remodels to repairs.

Hosts Eric G. And John Dudley have got you covered with the best advice and information about your home.

Now let's get this hour started.

Welcome to the around the House show, your trusted source for everything about your home.

Thanks for joining us today.

I'm Eric G. John Dudley, as always, good to see you.

And this is going to be a fun one today, brother.

Always is when we got Wendy on the show.

Wendy Glacier, welcome back to around the House.

Thank you.

Thank you both so much for having me.

I am excited about this topic.

I can tell there's already so much.

The energy is here already.

It's like, all right, let's go.

I'm ready.

All right.

I wanted to talk about the design process because, you know, as a certified kitchen designer myself and, you know, we've got a lot of great expertise in the room here.

It is one of those things that I see so many mistakes happen, that it could have been so much more cost effective to have the right people and the right process to get people through that project.

Agreed.

If you have the right people in the right process, it's much better.

And if you don't, it can be miserable.

So, yes, I endorse that statement 100%.

Yeah.

I mean, I think you just summed up the hour right there, which is all very lunch now.

I'm kind of hungry anyway.

Listen.

All right, let's order.

If you don't have those people, though, it can be miserable.

And.

And you know something?

It's one of those things that, that if it goes and works correctly, it works so beautifully.

And when it's off the rails, it's off the rails.

And this could be the part of the homeowner, it could be the part of the designer.

It could be a part of the builder, remodeler, contractor, or it could be all three at the same time.

A trifecta of disappointment, of chaos.

Boom, chaos and discipline.

Yeah.

But it can be, you know, and I've seen it from all sides.

As a designer myself, if I got going on a project and went, oh, my gosh, this isn't going to be a good fit, I kind of had a rule by meeting two, if at the end of it, if I wasn't feeling like this was going to be awesome.

I'd put a stop to it and just go, you know, I think I'm not the designer for your project, but here's a couple more you might want to talk to.

And I'd give them to my competition because maybe they'd do better.

Because I knew after years, if I hadn't let go a client or two in the last year, I might not have been picky enough and caused my own pain.

I think it's really true that if it's not a good fit personality wise, it won't be a good fit project wise.

And it's.

Some people have a tendency to try to be pleasers, and if you're a pleaser, but the personality fit is not right.

It just gets worse and harder and it's more and more of a drain energetically.

And it also really shuts down your ability to be creative, I find.

Yeah, because you just feel like you're in this lock space with this person and you want to give them all the right things, all the good things.

But for some reason or another, it's just not working.

I've had a lot of very interesting client interactions and so many fun stories.

In fact, Stephanie Fsen, one of my senior designers, is like, wendy, we've got to write a book.

And I said, I can't.

I can't do that until I retire because I'll never work again.

Exactly, Exactly.

I'm almost ready to write, mind.

You know, I'm gonna call it the Designer Chronicles.

You know what I mean?

Oh, it's interest, I think.

And for John, I'm sure working with clients and with designers, he's.

I'm sure he's experienced that space where he's go between a lot of times, and that's a very tough place to be as well.

So it's a.

We always talk about the lessons hard learned, right.

And especially when you're starting out, you're just taking work because you need work, but you definitely learn quickly that.

Oh, and Eric can attest, right?

I had a sales guy.

I had a sales guy.

He'd go out in his tie and his fancy shirt and all in his Mercedes and, you know, try to sell a kitchen.

Now, this was not.

No, this was not.

He was not rolling up in the G wagon.

He was very proud of his Mercedes, neither here nor there.

The fact of the matter is he couldn't.

He sold 10% of what I would sell.

I would close nine out of 10, he'd close one out of 10.

And I would walk in with ripped jeans and long hair and tattoos and dirty and just be genuine and authentic.

And I just figured, you know what, if you don't like me because I got earrings or tattoos or whatever, I probably don't want to work with you.

So what I found, the best answer is just be you.

Don't sell, don't sell.

Don't pretend, don't please.

Like you're saying.

And in almost 30 years of general contracting, I had one dissatisfied customer over a deck, and he was an attorney and then turned judge, and I won't mention the rest.

And, like, that guy was never going to be happy if I painted him in gold plate.

Just there was going to be something wrong no matter what, because he just wanted a weasel.

But legitimately, like, I just was myself.

And that's the best answer.

It solves a myriad of problems, right?

No, this is how we work together.

If you don't like that, we don't work together.

That's all.

Because nobody needs the stress.

Life's too short.

No amount of money's worth that kind of.

Because then you take it home, then it goes everywhere, then you're fritta.

And then there's the other side of the coin, right, guys?

That is.

The project's done, and you almost got a tear in your eye because you're not going to be part of their life every day.

You know, it's.

This is awesome, but, oh, man, I want to do another one with them because they were just so amazing and easy to work with.

Yeah, they're coming to your next Christmas party.

And, yeah.

And honestly, those were the rewards of being a contractor.

Making good money was cool and allowed me to do a lot of great things in life, but watching somebody dance in their new kitchen or cry, it was like, dude, that's the reward.

And if you're making that happen, then there's only one way to make that happen, and that's be authentic, right?

And I don't know, that was just always.

So let's talk about the process here.

And this is going to be who comes first, the chicken or the egg, Right?

Do you hire the designer first?

Did you hire the contractor first?

Or is it the same time to see if they work together?

What's your guys's take?

I love to see them hired together because then you can just duke it out and get it over with.

Or you come as a package, right?

Or you come as a package.

It's yeah, well, I've got your contractor or I've got the designer that will come in here.

Right.

So whoever gets the first call, just how many.

I'd always bring you in on the job because I knew we'd do it effectively and there wouldn't be any.

No, we really need this to be that and vice versa.

And I would do the same thing as a designer.

I would.

Oh, great, you're hiring me first.

Great, Cool.

Let's bring my contractor that I think would be a great fit because I'm already know the people a little bit.

I've had at least one meeting and I'm like, oh, they're a Johnny person.

They're going to get along great.

What's your take, Wendy?

I think whoever gets there first, as long as they know that they need a really great team around them and they introduce them early is a great idea.

If we're doing a new build.

If a client calls me for a new build and says, well, who's a good architect that I should use?

I have a couple that I recommend and then I have a couple of contractors that I really trust and respect and I mention them and I'll tell, sorry, I'll tell the homeowners, we all need to be in the room because all of us come at this from a different perspective.

I respect each of them.

Everyone's going to catch something that the other guy wouldn't catch.

And in the end, that means very few change orders.

A really beautiful, well executed project that's on time and on budget because we can problem solve as we build it out on paper so that when we build it out for real, of course you'll have things come up.

But you all get along so well by then because you've been working together for a while developing the plan that it's easy to overcome those kinds of challenges.

It's when there's these weird walls that are kind of put up between the builder or the architect or the designer or.

To find out more about the around the House show, make sure you head to our website aroundthehouse online.com around the house.

We'll be back with more from Wendy Glaster right after these important mess.

The kids these days will never understand what it's like to play an instrument, to be in a band.

What's up?

This is sticksydenia and Satchel from Steel Panther and you are listening to around the House with Eric G. Yeah, we.

Love Eric G. And you should too.

1987.

Welcome back to the around the House show.

Eric G. And John Dudley are chatting with Wendy Glaster from Wendy Glaster Interiors about the best way to navigate the design process on your next project or house build.

Let's get back to the conversation.

It's easy to overcome those kinds of challenges.

It's when there's these weird walls that are kind of put up between the builder or the architect or the designer or.

And I just.

I think Johnny's right.

You really do have to be yourself because it's a.

It's so high touch building a home or renovating a home.

And there's so much at stake, and it's not easy if the people are living there in the middle of a renovation.

It's extremely stressful.

It's just.

It's hard to live in a mess.

And if you have those relationships that are really solid before you begin demo, it will be a much better job.

And I just think it's important to have respect for each member of the team that way, really Key.

It's so much more about being human, and that's a piece that so many people don't understand.

Right.

It's about pulling your ego out of it and.

Right.

It's just like being in a band.

Eric.

Right.

What's a good song?

A good song is one where nobody's got a dog in the fight.

It's.

You write for the song.

Not well.

I want my bass part to show up really loud.

And you have to come at it from that type of process.

You have to know that the homeowner is going to freak out when you tear that wall out.

There's going to be tension, and you have to be mature enough to handle that and be delicate with it because you're dealing with their baby, which is their home.

There's so many.

It's very much.

It's as much a psychological process as it is a process of labor.

Right.

It just.

Yeah, it's a human touch the most.

I think the hardest part in the front end is the money part, and it has nothing to do with the homeowner to start.

If you have an architect and you have a designer and you have a builder or a modeler, and each one of them wants to take a percentage of the materials.

Oh, this starts to get crazy.

Because if the architect is.

Yeah, my fee is this and a percentage of the project, and the designer goes, all right, I'm doing this.

And a percentage of my materials.

And the builder goes, well, I got to make all this stuff show up.

And it's coming through my books, so I Gotta do this.

And a percentage that can compound really quickly if there aren't some honest conversations and if these people haven't worked together before.

I just don't do that.

I don't either.

I don't either.

I don't work with architects that do that because that means things will be specified that are impractical just because, as I see it in particular with windows.

And I may notice it more with windows and doors because my husband is a commercial glass and storefront guy.

So I can see.

Oh, they want that window from Canada.

Great.

Oh, I love those Polish ones.

That one from Poland is really cool because it's got eight panes of glass.

Nice.

I'm glad you said you never do that because I have never done that.

I was like, what?

I never.

But it does happen.

I hear it a lot and it causes a lot of.

Certainly, yeah.

I never had to go through it.

So I don't buy the tile because I'm not putting it in and it's never going to be in my hands.

I want the installer to buy the tile.

You and I, by the first time, you and I went, oh, we are on the same page on this one.

Because this is probably the biggest controversy in interior design out there, is this topic.

Well, a lot of the business models for interior designers means that they buy and mark up product.

I mean, they'll buy plumbing, they'll buy appliances, they'll buy the flooring, they'll buy.

And it's just.

You ultimately want to be responsible for all of that.

Well, here's the problem is, from the contractor's point of view, if, let's say, Johnny installs a Kohler bathtub and it's got a flaw in it, or there's a warranty claim with this big Kohler bathtub that you just used a crane to put in because it's cast iron, something's wrong with it.

Right.

You know, it's all in there.

You, as the designer are now responsible for that product that you just sold.

The plumber's going, ain't my deal.

I'm out.

And now who's paying the labor for someone to come put it back in?

Trying to get Kohler, let's say, to pick up that price kind of hard.

Who's eating that when things go sideways?

And for the.

To me, my math was always for the amount of risk that I'm taking on.

That orange ain't worth the squeeze.

No, absolutely not.

Plus, that means I have to be an expert in every single thing out there instead of Having really trusting relationships with people who are experts at flooring, at lighting, at plumbing.

All these different parts that make the whole.

I am not the end all be all, and I know it.

And I am doing my client a disservice if I don't involve the best of the best in their project and just assume responsibility for all of it.

Because I want to make x this year.

I just.

And you don't want to be the one having to go to the plumbing store because the escutcheon plate was missing out of the box that somebody rolled off the shelf.

And now you're a parts runner trying to get pieces because nobody else is going to go run the parts to get it for you to fix something because you're the one that was carrying the deal.

Stick to what you get at.

Yeah, yeah.

It's just a greedy business model.

It doesn't serve the client.

It doesn't serve you.

It doesn't.

I mean, ultimately, it's just.

Well.

And you hit the nail on the head.

Like, can you tell?

I know it.

I know it.

I love this controversy.

I don't want to be an expert in anything.

Right.

Let alone claim to be and know that I'm not.

Who wants that?

That's not worth an extra anything that.

I guess there's pretty folks out there.

Yeah, yeah.

It's just, again, you got to pull your ego out and go, yeah, I don't know how to pick Italian tile.

Are you crazy?

I don't.

I frame right.

Where it really comes up is luxury products like shower systems.

When.

Oh, great.

There's 32 boxes of parts for the shower system.

Baldwin hardware.

I love them.

But if you're getting into matching escutcheon plates and all this stuff, there's 12 part numbers you need to know.

And I've been on the Baldwin team for years.

I love them.

I still rely on my local people to get the part numbers and that stuff right.

Some of it I even played a part in the design process on and I still lean on them because I didn't see that maybe a part was changed last year and maybe that's not the best option.

Some of those things you got to be so knee deep in to understand how it goes together that it's foolish to not let another person that does it every day to mess with it.

Agreed.

Yeah.

It's just.

I just think it's tough upper y and that this does not.

Doesn't work for me at all.

And I see it on some commercial projects where, you know, there's especially for Architects where there's some liability maybe with specifying stuff.

I mean, I can understand it in some ways.

I mean I saw great example there was a high rise I was doing was when I was in the band, Johnny.

It was up in Seattle.

And the architect, I won't say the project because I don't want the architect getting mad about me talking smack here.

But this high rise, they ordered all the fire doors for the 42 story building to the incorrect spec.

And so the parking garage had three floors of pallets of metal framed doors.

That didn't mean spec.

Stick around.

The around the House show will be right back.

Welcome back to the around the House Show.

Eric G. And John Dudley are chatting with Wendy Glaster from Wendy Glaster Interiors about the best way to navigate the design process on your next project or house build.

Let's get back to the conversation.

And they were on site, didn't need fire code, hadn't even been installed.

And my cabinetry one day was being installed.

I was doing my daily walks because I had floors, was 19 through 41 that I was doing cabinetry in on this high rise.

And I'm cutting through the parking garage to get to my vehicle and I see two guys up there with face masks and porta saws and they're out there cutting these things up and putting them in scrap metal bins to haul off.

And, and the liability on that had to have been disgusting because those things are never cheap.

And you know, hundreds of doors getting chopped up, frames not good.

No.

Yeah, I don't want a part of that.

I don't want a part of that.

I think a big part of the design process too is just getting to know your client.

Like how does this actually unfold?

And I try to do a really good job of explaining on the first phone call, but it starts with a phone call.

I.

It's not going to start on an email.

Send me how this works on an email.

I can, but I'm going to talk to you first because I want to know, I want to hear your voice, I want to know if you're real.

I want to know if we get along in this first conversation and if it's, if it's even a project that's a good fit for the firm.

And then if you choose to pay me to come see you to do an initial consultation, we will be together for an hour and we will talk through these things.

And then I will go back to my office and put together a design summary for you and email it to you.

Within five business days.

So there's, there are very specific expectations and deliverables and timetables that are assigned to everything.

And then once you hire me, you sign a letter of agreement and you establish the retainer.

Then we go to the job and we measure everything.

We start spending the time on scale drawings and all of that starts to come together.

But it also gives me time to get to know them and say, you know, let me really dive into your Pinterest board and let me study these things and do kind of like a design inventory of all the things that are common denominators through all these images that you've shared that you love.

So I can make sure that all of that gets placed in your home.

But, you know, it's not just willy nilly we're going to show up with some little thing and.

Right.

And hope.

Hope that you like it.

I mean, it's, it's.

Sometimes people say, well, aren't you going to give me three or five different versions of how this could come together and what it could be and that.

No.

Aren't you gonna pay me three or five times?

Yeah, five times more.

Because, like, I care enough about you to have studied your preferences and likes and dislikes and, you know, if there are things within it that you don't particularly love, I'll absolutely will swap them out and do that.

But I'm not being a good steward of your resources if I give you five different.

Because by then I know you well enough to know what you're gonna love.

Hopefully.

I mean, usually and otherwise it's just a waste of time.

And I'm not really behind the design anyway.

And I really can't give myself completely to it because I don't really believe in it.

So it's just, you know, a lot of it's mutual respect and taking the time to get to know each other.

One thing I would do as a designer, Wendy, when I was doing kitchens is I would start out first drawing was, let's call it Smith Kitchen one.

Next revision was always two.

And I was always saving those revisions.

You have to.

But then I, when I would walk out there, I would have all of those in my folder to have it.

Yeah.

So there was one that I went through and I think we were on revision 13 and I was getting frustrated because we were turning around and I was sitting here just going, okay, we've already explored that.

Did you want to go back to that?

Let's.

Okay, I'm going to make my decision.

We're going to do this and this.

And I went, great.

I flipped it open and I went, this.

And they go, that's perfect.

I said, why don't you look at the bottom and see which drawing that is.

Pointing it out?

Smith, kitchen one.

And I called it out.

I go, we are now full circle.

Yeah.

And they went with it and they loved it, but it was just that thing where I kept it.

And I just went, all right, I got it right here.

Because I'm like, are you so high?

Does it make you feel good to say those words?

I did.

It felt really good on that one.

Because I never experienced a time in my life where saying I told you so has ever been positive.

But I am grateful for you because now I know somebody where that actually works out, and that's.

Well.

And it was just like, oh.

And I probably had this crazy Cheshire cat smile, slowly, calmly pulling this out, going, I got it right here.

Yeah.

And the contractor was sitting there, just kind of.

He was getting frustrated.

I could see his ears getting red, his nose getting red.

He was getting a little more color in his face, going, this is our sixth in person meeting, trying to get this wrapped up.

And I went, here we go.

You know, and it.

They laughed.

They went, okay, yeah, we're being ridiculous.

Here we go.

And then it went off without a flaw.

But it was one of those things where I was just like, yep, we've explored every option for this space.

It's because they understood that it came off well.

Right.

It's because they understood, okay, we're being ridiculous.

Some people need that process, Right.

I can be that way.

To be fair.

I can be like, well, what about if we turn.

What about.

Well, what about I can get into my little perfectionism chaos and run around in circles and end up back at square one going, why did I just waste three hours or three days or whatever?

But being able to be honest enough with yourself at that point and go, you're right.

I was being silly.

Okay, let's do it right.

Yeah.

That's the difference.

And then I've had the.

You remember when I was working for these guys over there on Pacific highway, and I was working for them, and they had some business in Japan.

And we did an entire small apartment complex, like 12 units, without me ever getting on the phone with them.

It was all via email.

And that was the biggest trust thing, even back then, because I've got appliances I've never seen before.

It's completely different.

Cooktops have little grills built in them.

Nothing is standard.

I'm using a design program that's not friendly with that because it's made for American stuff and not Japanese stuff.

So it was really interesting to do, but it gave me some trust in the process.

But that was one of those that after I was done and they decided there was some laws that changed where they were marketing, oh, this has American stuff in it.

And it was big.

And the Japanese government came out and went, okay, if you're bringing stuff in from cabinetry and some of this stuff, you're going to pay 2x or 3x for it.

And so that business dried up.

I was kind of happy about it because it was just stressful to be doing this stuff.

And they spoke English really well, but it was tough.

It was one of those things that you're trying to write an email and asking questions without seeming out of context or being.

It's so easy to read something and for people to take it their own way.

And so there's a lot of crafting of emails to make it sound professional, but not like I'm being a jerk either.

You just lose that tone.

Text is difficult.

Yeah, text is tricky.

It is, it is.

And that's one of the things, too.

And I think one of the most important things for homeowners throughout the design process here is having the clear process and the contract that guides you along the way.

That is like your roadmap to success of how that's going to work with all the people to divide up the responsibilities.

What's your take on that, Wendy?

Within your business of how you do it?

I mean, contracts are kind of the rule of the road, in a way.

They are.

They are.

I use a letter of agreement where I just say, pretty much, we're going to respect the contractor, we're going to respect the architect.

There's not kickbacks happening here.

What you see is what you get.

It's very straightforward.

You'll receive, you know, a bill every 30 days.

It's very.

It's just very clean and simple.

Nice.

And I speak with them at length about how the project's gonna go, even from the first phone call.

So it's articulated, you know, it's voice and it's read and it's, you know, all the different ways people learn.

But sometimes it still doesn't matter.

I mean, I think I've kind of gotten to a point now where certain personalities I will still work with because there's a family connection or there's a business connection, or, you know, I came highly recommended by someone I really care about.

And.

But those people are still not easy.

And I have come to a point now where it's like, you know, I'm going to give you my honest opinion.

I want what's best for you.

If you choose not to take any of this advice, that's fine.

You're still going to write a check for my time, and I thank you very much.

Where before, it was almost like a personal affront.

They won't listen to me, or they won't do this or they won't do that, or they're so argumentative.

I went.

There was a time I went to my position, said, can I please have beta blockers?

Because I have this individual very.

He's married to good friends of my parents, exclusively in a family situation.

And he was extremely combative and would just go off on his own and make design decisions that were horrible.

Like, 28 recess cans in a family room.

Oh, Lord.

And I walked in that cans.

It looks like a.

Looks like the moon surface.

Yeah.

And he goes, drywall left.

No.

Because what do you think?

My professional electrician did this.

And he really emphasized professional.

And I said, well, okay.

I said, well, have you known this professional electrician a long time?

Yes.

And does he do work for you in your food processing business?

Yes.

Okay.

I said, well, that makes really good sense.

And I think if we were in a packing plant, this would make really good sense.

This would be great.

Safest place on the planet.

I get it.

Because you would see everything.

And it makes a lot of sense to me.

I said, but in your own home, it needs to be a little bit different.

There's circadian rhythms, and there's how people like to be lighted, and it's oppressive if it's too much and on.

And I tried so hard to keep my cool, but I probably match the little tools that are in here.

Yep.

Background.

Yep.

It took so much effort.

And so then the next time I came, he said, I know your tell now.

You turn red when you get upset.

I can see it.

You just light up.

And I thought, that's it.

I'm getting Bev Walker.

And I did for the rest of the time.

And I never talked about.

Never let him see his sweat.

I took that to a whole other level.

Absolutely.

Like, I'm gonna win this one.

Yeah.

But it's just became, I'm glad that I finished the project.

His wife is really happy.

Eventually, he said, thank you.

But you do those.

Those do make you grow as a human being.

I never want to allow someone to get me to that point again.

I know that.

I know after 18 years, I know I don't know everything, but I know that I do know certain things.

And you can talk to me however you think you need to talk to me.

It's not going to change how I feel.

And I feel like that's a big part of being a professional, is believing in your team, believing in the experience that you have, believing that you want the best for the client and being able to articulate that.

And I think that's where, as a younger designer, it was very hard for me because I didn't have the confidence.

Not that I do now 100%.

I mean, I think once you think you have it all, like, you're in trouble.

You have nothing to offer anymore because you're not going to learn anything anymore.

But that's a really tough thing.

And I feel like that contract, that letter of agreement, protects me in those situations because I will give you my best opinion, and you can take it or leave it, but you will write that check when I give you that invoice every 30 days.

Ta da.

There you go.

I mean, but it's.

It took a long time to get there, I think.

Johnny, what was starting off.

Have a hard time.

What was one of your hard stories?

You got one.

Is the statute of limitations over?

He's, like, talking about that.

No, I just.

It always comes back to the human touch of being in this business.

And it's so important.

And again, when you.

It's so liberating when you find that confidence, when you find that point where you're, like, not rattled, not questioning your own judgment, questioning your ability, because somebody said something once, you know it and you own it again.

That's why I could walk in and sell a $250,000 remodel in cutoffs if that's what I wanted to do.

And people like Kevin couldn't, because I knew I stood in my truth.

And I spoke with honesty always.

And people sense that, and people know that.

And I wasn't going to argue with you because, A, I don't want to eat the beta blockers, and B, I don't have the energy.

You know what I mean?

I'm down the road.

I got better things to do than stand here and argue over whether I'm right as a 25 year contractor or you're right, as a 30 year dentist.

Like, I'm not having this discussion.

Come on.

Yeah.

You know, Johnny, can I and Eric both.

I really feel for designers or contractors that are just starting off and don't have that confidence yet.

I would have liked to have had someone help me bridge that in my own mind.

What do you think?

What would you tell your younger you that people just starting off could tell themselves that you think would make a difference?

I think you got to do the time.

You just gotta do the time.

Honestly, I think that's as much as I hate saying that, because I did.

I searched for mentors, I tried to follow people, you know, luckily I knew a couple older carpenters and I definitely learned some things from them.

But people skills, man, it's.

It's like teaching guitar style.

You can teach you the notes, I can teach you the notes, but I can't teach you this, the feel, the style.

And I think that's something.

You just have to have 50 conversations with various clients to really get who you are and where you stand and really find that for yourself.

This reminds me, somebody called me once a week, you know what I mean?

And wanted a mentor and was like, dude, I dealt with this guy this week and this guy that.

I've got tips.

And just having somebody to say you're okay is huge.

Seriously, just to have some value, just.

To have social media groups these days, right?

So get involved with those.

Right?

Because you need that self validation or other validation.

You need people to say you're not crazy, you're not a bad person, you're not wrong.

Maybe that person had a bad day, maybe their cat ran away, who knows?

Don't take it personally.

And learning some of those lessons is hard.

And if you don't have somebody to talk to and understand that with, it gets really lonely and you can get really down on yourself about it and it costs you.

And, and I've been there, you know, we've all been in the hole and you know, luckily there's been somebody to help pull us out or we wouldn't be here now.

Yeah, I remember I had one project, I had one project that I went and sat in my car and I went, how do I navigate this?

You know?

And I was probably eight years into the design career where I was confident of what I was doing.

But we'll keep this G rated for the radio show.

But new construction, build.

I'm the designer.

There were planned revisions from the architect we're walking through.

And I'm in the master bedroom.

And yes, I am fighting to keep the word master bedroom out there.

I don't do primary suite.

That's my little hill I'm gonna die on.

But I'm walking through, and I'm like, why do we have to deal with.

I'm walking through the house.

I'm like, why is there a crawl space door in the middle of the floor of the bedroom?

I'm like, is this.

Isn't that where they go?

But why it.

What would be the end of the bed?

Is that.

And the very quiet wife goes, that's the trap door to the red velvet room.

Okay.

Don't want to.

Know about that.

In my head, I'm like, holy hell.

I'm going to have to ask storage questions for cabinetry in the red velvet room.

And I don't want to have this conversation.

Oh, no, man.

And I'm like, what do I do with this?

And I punted.

I went, oh, okay.

And I just let it go because I'm like, I need to be mentally prepared for this conversation.

And I wasn't.

Let's be honest.

I wasn't.

I was like, wow, this is beyond my comfort level of this group conversation right here.

And.

That was like a horror story in its own going.

I do not want to be a part of this conversation.

I am.

I can't believe I've never heard that one.

I know it.

See?

And it was the time we were working.

You probably did at some point, but thought about writing a song about it, but you know what I mean?

But it was just great.

A song about this.

But we don't let base.

That's why we don't let bass players write songs.

Oh, wow.

But seriously, though, that's some of the stuff that you run into and professional.

You're like, I don't want to do this.

I don't want to do this.

So, again, finding the right designer for your project.

I was not the right designer for that project because I just didn't want to know those people that way.

Well, there's actually a designer who.

There's a show, I think, on Netflix about rooms like that.

And you can hire this gal, and she's very well known, and I've not watched the show.

It's not really my aesthetic.

But I think, Johnny, you and I.

Need to do those review videos where you put up the show and then make your comments, and we'll just do some stuff with that where you play it and then just go, what?

Yeah, yeah.

But then we'd have to Watch it.

But it's just, again, the wild stuff in the books we could write of some of the things that we get thrown into as designers, contractors.

And that would have been much smarter for the homeowner to have that conversation early on.

Yes.

Than to drop that multiple hand grenade in the middle of a job site walk.

Yeah.

That's an interesting.

I never.

Yeah, no, no, never ran into that one.

I have a client who introduced me to her nanny one day and then asked us to.

After we completed a certain place in our.

Like, a living room in our home, asked us to go and start on a bedroom and bathroom renovation.

And so I sent my senior designer into the home to measure.

Sure.

And we hadn't been backed into the bedroom yet.

And so I thought, okay, well, they've been great so far.

And she went and measured and called me on the phone when she left and said, are you.

Do you know what's going on over there?

Okay, wanna.

And she explained that there were.

The marriage relationship involved more than two people.

It was open as Denny's.

No, not open.

Not open.

Multiple.

Got it.

And I had nightmares.

I couldn't sleep.

I was just like.

I couldn't.

I mean, life is very hard, and I love my husband very much, but if I could not survive that kind of stress or competition or whatever is happening there, there is no way.

And I had to have a Netflix show.

But, yeah, I cared about them as people, but I could not serve them with my own stuff.

And so my senior designer primarily did that project because it did not affect her in the same way.

Thank God she was willing to do it.

And she was there, and she cares very much for them, too.

And we've gone on to help their family and.

Nice.

And it's great.

And I care about them very much.

I just could not be in that space.

And so I do think there are times when you.

You cannot.

Yeah, I had one.

That was not that.

But.

And this was a bad story.

I think I took Kevin on this project, actually.

And we went, no, because.

Wonderful condo.

No, that's something.

It must have been bad because.

Yeah.

For Kevin to go now.

And it was, because here's what happened, is we wanted to measure.

This condo lady called me up.

Hey, I got this condo I want to do really nice.

Okay, so we go take a look at it.

And her brother had been severely injured in a motorcycle accident, and she was caring for him, and he was an adult, but he also had the.

And again, I don't know all the details, but he had the mental Capacity of a, like a four or five year old.

So I felt bad for the situation.

But I also, as I'm sitting there measuring the kitchen up and we're going through the meeting in this fully grown naked man comes walking through, gets something out of the refrigerator and goes back and sits on the couch and watches television.

And the homeowner went in there, didn't explain it.

Figured that this was something completely normal.

I'm like, I'm out.

I'm out.

Yeah, that gets a little uncomfortable.

It was uncomfortable.

And not to sound like the whole.

Thing so much about the design process, by the way.

It is, but we've gone down some rabbit holes.

But seriously, see, look, I took a beta blocker.

See that?

It's not working.

It's not working.

It's not working.

But again, these are the things that you.

Again, back to the books.

But it's.

Yeah, we can't manage this.

We can't.

And they're not going to manage it.

And next client.

So to make sense of all this, find the right designer for your project early.

Do us, do everyone a favor and.

Do everyone a favor.

Like, I put a verse from the Bible up every single day unless I, you know, am sick or something has happened.

And then lately I've been starting to kind of talk about, like, why this is important to me, and I hope that it helps you and you have a great day.

And that tells a lot of people if they would want me in their house right away, and if they don't want me in their house, that's okay because then I'm just not the person for them.

But then the people who do want me in their house know where I'm coming from and know how I feel and believe and who I ultimately trust and all of, like, where my design inspiration comes from.

And they can feel comfortable and confident in that.

So I feel, to Johnny's point, the more authentic you can be and the more honest you can be about who you really are, the better it is for.

For your clients or potential clients, because then they know who you are, who's coming to your house, who's around your children, who's, you know, all these things.

It's really important.

I feel like that was.

It's a profound thing and it takes a lot of guts, but it's worth it in the long run because then everybody's happier and it's a better job.

Yeah.

Thank you for that, Wendy.

You took this madness of Johnny and I, right here, mostly me, and brought the Bible verse.

You put a Little bow around it.

You cleaned it up at the end and left this beautiful project that we called a show here.

You gotta remember you're dealing with, you know, sacred space.

It's people's homes, you know, and whatever that means to them.

As far as sacred space is totally different.

But again, back to being your true authentic self is so key because, you know, it is.

It's their home.

I totally respect it.

That's your deal, not mine.

It's your deal.

I just knew at that point that there were things that I just wasn't going to tackle.

Just wasn't going to tackle that there's somebody out better for them out there to do that.

So that's my take, Wendy.

If someone wants to do a really cool project, how do people find you and get going on that?

You can find me on Instagram, Wendy Glacier Interiors, or on.

I have a really fun little website that you can take a look at and see past projects and see my process at Wendy Glaster.

G L a I s T-E-R interiors.com.

Thank you so much for having me back.

I love to visit with you guys.

I always could do something all fun together, like in person.

Be cool.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Columbia.

No.

Yeah, that's what Johnny said.

It'd be so fun.

We'll go hang out the beach.

The beaches are great.

Yeah.

Yep.

There you go.

I immediately am.

I'm not speaking because I keep wanting to speak Spanish, but.

Yes.

Come.

On.

I'm Johnny's American voice that he gets to practice his English with every day.

It's amazing how much I forgot after nine years of being here.

Like, I mean, not forgot, but I have to stop and think sometimes.

Like, oh, what's that word?

That's great.

Oh, toast.

Amazing.

You know, what's that word?

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

All right, guys.

Thanks, Wendy.

Thanks, Johnny.

I'm Eric G. You've been listening to around the House.

Make sure you follow us on social media.

For all the updates and live events, head to our website aroundthehouseonline.com.

We will see you next time.